Let Them Eat….

Well, not cake apparently. Before I start, I should warn you that this post may be a little bit contentious so if you’re not in that kind of mood, give it a miss. Anyway, I don’t know if you’ve seen the report in the news today that the UK supreme court has backed the Christian owners of a bakery who refused to make a cake, for a gay activist, which read ‘Support Gay Marriage’? What surprises me is not that the Christians won but that the case went on for over 4 years and cost more than £250,000. Did it not occur to either side that either making the cake or placing an order with another bakery would be considerably less stressful and expensive?

Leave me out of thisWhat makes people cling onto their beliefs with such vigour I wonder? Do the Christians really believe that their God will condemn them for baking a cake? Is it that they fear some kind of retribution in this life or in the after life? Apparently the Bible doesn’t really have a massive amount to say about homosexuality other than it’s an abomination, that gays should be put to death and excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven. However, in terms of being excluded, they will be keeping company with the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and swindlers to name but a few.

These people will all be grouped together under the heading ‘Sinner’ and, according to parts of the Bible, if they don’t sort themselves out and change their ways, lots of nasty things will befall them. However, and here’s the rub, the Bible also says:

“Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins” and also:

“Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.”

So, whichever way you look at, we’re all damned….quite literally apparently. None of us is without sin so we’re all going to be exterminated. Except, we’re not, well maybe we are, to be honest it depends which bit of the Bible you read, for instance:

“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

dalekIf we take this last quote as gospel (pardon the pun) God won’t care if people are gay or not because we all fall under the heading ‘sinner’ and we are all equally loved by Him. I’m not a great one for religion to be honest but I do have to believe that, if there is a God, He’s likely to be the benevolent and tolerant kind rather than the smiting and exterminating kind. Why? Well because if I didn’t believe that I’d think that people might as well worship a dalek (who were also big on extermination) or some other cruel and intolerant being. For me, the whole point of God is to remind people to be nice to each other; it’s a little ironic that His name is so often used as an excuse to do quite the opposite but anyway….

So that’s my opinion of the Christian side of the argument. To sum up, God probably wouldn’t care if you baked a cake with some words on it.

Now, for the Gay activist. Again, cards on the table, I don’t have a massive amount of time for ‘activists’ in any shape or form, not because I don’t believe that we should all be free to live our lives as we see fit, but more because I’m not keen on being force fed the beliefs of others. However, in my mind, as long as what people do doesn’t hurt others, have at it. We all want to love and be loved and what better way is there to live life?

rights Ayn RandWhat I do find slightly troublesome is when acceptance is not asked for but demanded as appears to have happened in this case. The man who ordered the cake has the right to live as he pleases, if he loves another man and is loved in return, who are we to criticise; it has no effect on us so what’s the problem? However, is his lifestyle in any way diminished because a baker refused to bake a cake? Was he told that he could not be gay or that he should be condemned for being so? No. He was merely told that he could not impose his will on others but only by this court; two others told him that he did, in fact, have such a right.

That’s what all this ultimately comes down to: people’s rights. Personally, I can’t help feeling that Jonathan Sacks was on the money when he said:

“True freedom requires the rule of law and justice, and a judicial system in which the rights of some are not secured by the denial of rights to others”

In this case, either the rights of the baker or the rights of the gay man would have to be denied in order to settle the case once and for all; wouldn’t it have been far easier, all round, for the case to be dismissed right at the start?

What do you think? I’d love to hear from you….

Lisa x

  38 comments for “Let Them Eat….

  1. October 10, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    Totally, totally, agree with you. I do not think that I have the right to condemn anyone for doing anything, so long as what they do does no harm to anyone else, and is not forced upon anyone else. I am willing to accept that some people will do things that would abhor me. So long as those are done in private, fine by me. The minute it is foisted on me in public then I will be the first to reach for my zapper, and vaporise them! (This may, or may not, include fat men walking around the streets of the UK with no tops on!)

    Liked by 1 person

    • October 10, 2018 at 1:31 pm

      Ooohh I’d love to have a zapper :O) I take it yours is metaphorical Peter…or will I be visiting you in lock up some time soon ;O) xx

      Liked by 1 person

      • October 10, 2018 at 1:40 pm

        Yes, mine makes cars immobile, and fries their sound systems, makes buzzy little scooters collapse into a puddle of molten metal, makes foul mouthed people mute, makes mothers and fathers, who do not look at, or speak to their children, but instead have their nose in their phones, turn into frogs, and a myriad other super powers that I add to each day!

        Liked by 1 person

      • October 10, 2018 at 1:41 pm

        That sounds like fun, I need to get me one of those :O) xxx

        Liked by 1 person

  2. October 10, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    Totally agree. We all have our personal views and beliefs in life. Practice them as long as you are not hurting or offending others. But no one has the right to impose their way of thinking onto others.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. Boo
    October 10, 2018 at 7:33 pm

    Why can’t they just try for another bakery instead of suing and ruining someone’s LIVELIHOOD? That is the part I don’t get. “Do you make this?” ‘No.” Ok, onto the next place. NO one has to do what YOU want if they do not want to. Move along and find someone who will instead of ruining a life. Sheesh. But then that makes sense so NO we can’t do that.

    Liked by 1 person

    • October 10, 2018 at 7:47 pm

      Indeed, there is a definite lack of common sense here. Thanks so much for taking the time to comment 😊 xx

      Liked by 1 person

      • Boo
        October 10, 2018 at 8:18 pm

        You are most welcome…….

        Liked by 1 person

  4. October 11, 2018 at 7:32 am

    Just imagine if that’s what happened to God. He gave us free will just to concentrate more on cakes..

    Liked by 1 person

    • October 11, 2018 at 8:52 am

      I thought it was the devil that gave us free will?? Anyway, yes you’re right, I can’t imagine that cakes factored much when we were in the initial stages of creation ;O) xx

      Like

  5. October 11, 2018 at 7:38 am

    Any business has the right to sell to whoever they want to…for whatever reason they want. Most businesses choose to sell to everyone they can.
    The obverse of the coin of freedom is that to protect freedom you must allow people with unpalatable views to have those views
    So many,speaking generally,try to ‘win’ something and keep going even when the game is over.
    The people refused the cake should have stepped over the ‘slight’ and pitied the shop owners. Yet one feels those refused the cake may also have been influenced by people wanting to make a public point.
    the phrase ‘the law is an ass’ comes to mind
    Reminds me of the stories one occasionally hears of two neighbours arguing over 3 inches of their boundary and both lose everything they have.

    Liked by 1 person

    • October 11, 2018 at 8:53 am

      Yes, exactly! In situations like this the only winners are the lawyers…..maybe that’s why the law continues to be so complex….just a thought ;O) x

      Liked by 1 person

  6. blindzanygirl
    October 11, 2018 at 10:09 am

    This is the most brilliant post that I have read in a LONG time Lisa. You are on the ball. As soon as you said it was contentious, I said, “I’m IN”. Lol. My opinion? What the HECK? It’s only a CAKE. I so agree with all that you have said, and this SIN thing reallt GETS to me, having had it banged on my head forcibly just lately, leading to my leaving of my community. I left purely BECAUSE of being TOLD that I had many sins for getting stuck in my wheelchair in the i,kegal church doors and that I HAD to go to Confession before I could receive Communion again. Since when was Communion meant to be used as a weapon? Not much LOvE there. I am SICK of this sin thing, and the other day I sat in fronice t of my priest after his onslaught and said in the loudest vopossible “FUCK.” Clisely folliwed by “BOLLOCKS” and ‘DICK.” Ha ha. Yay. If you want fun, come into my world! It’s like a bloody soap olera! Only better! Ha! Seriously Lisa, you have hit the nail right on the head. As long as we are not hurting anyone else, who can condemn hs? It is not MY business to condemn what others do that is love, to them. You have argued it and put it far better than I ever could Lisa. BRILLIANT pist! Right, I am jyst off to bake a cake now. Complete with loads of SIN!

    Liked by 1 person

    • October 11, 2018 at 10:15 am

      Thanks my friend :O)
      Ah ok I get your poem now! Good on you for being so outspoken! As you say, no aspect of religion should be used as a weapon; if there’s no love there then move on, I think you made the right decision. As I said I’m not a great believer in religion but, if there is a God up there, I reckon he’ll have a place for you ;O) xxxx

      Like

      • blindzanygirl
        October 11, 2018 at 10:41 am

        Lol Lusa. Shocking pnk socks and all! I gruly don’t know if there’s a God or not either. I like to think there is one of Live. But to be honest, this sin stuff REALLY gets my goat. Yes, and if there is a God and a heaven, you will be tbere too my friend xo

        Liked by 1 person

      • October 11, 2018 at 10:52 am

        Yep I think that the concept of sin was invented as a way to keep people in line, it has very negative connotations to my mind as well.
        We’ll have some fun up there when the time comes ;O) xxx

        Liked by 1 person

      • blindzanygirl
        October 11, 2018 at 10:55 am

        Lol. Yes the concept is just a form of control. And the Bible was only written by MEN! Lol so what do we exect? Ha!

        Liked by 1 person

      • October 11, 2018 at 1:24 pm

        Yep makes you think doesn’t it ;O) xx

        Like

  7. October 11, 2018 at 10:59 am

    My only thoughts on this are that I wouldn’t want to eat a cake that someone had been forced to make for me….smh

    Liked by 2 people

  8. October 11, 2018 at 1:55 pm

    I almost entirely agree with you. This same thing happened in the US and I said the same thing, “allow that fella to skip out on the cake and go get one elsewhere.” That’s the sensible thing to do. Of course then I have to think of the situation in other contexts. How would be feel if the baker said, “Can’t make you a cake because one of you is black and I can’t support interracial marriage.” Would we feel the same way? How about if he posted a sign that said “no gays or Mexicans.” What about “Christians Only Cake Shop.” Would that be okay?

    The larger picture has to make us wonder, where do the civil rights of one party begin to impinge upon the civil rights of the other?

    I truly don’t know the answer. But occasionally spending a quarter million somethings to try to figure it out seems a small price to pay.

    One more thing: I agree with the ruling and am disappointed by it at the same time. How does that make sense?

    Liked by 1 person

    • October 11, 2018 at 2:10 pm

      You’re right, there is a bigger picture but I can’t help feeling that it’s being distorted by these type of actions; it’s almost as though by focusing on the minutiae (a cake in this case) we make a mockery of the serious issues.
      I don’t know the answer either, I just wish that everyone could just get on with each other and forget their ‘differences’ xx

      Liked by 1 person

      • October 11, 2018 at 2:21 pm

        I do, too. But we both know they won’t, which is why we need the rule of law.

        I was driving home the other day when this libertarian was being interviewed and she was angry at the tax law passed last December. She said it didn’t “go far enough.” She wanted 0% corporate tax, instead of 21% or whatever was decided on. She said the free market would make corporations distribute wealth properly and raise pay and provide health care, and the government should stay out of all of it.

        I laughed. We’ve seen what happens when we just let everyone do as they wilt, without interference from “government” or “law.”

        It’s important. Is it about cake? Or is cake just the symbol of the injustice? Was the Rosa Parks thing about buses? Was Jackie Robinson about something as trivial as baseball? Is Kaepernick kneeling to disrespect the flag? Or is/was all of those things about something bigger.

        I say it is. But what do I know. 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      • October 11, 2018 at 2:28 pm

        To be honest I can understand the arguments for lower taxation and less Government interference in business but that’s mainly because I ran a business and know how onerous and damaging all the rules and regulations can be for owners and staff alike.
        However, having thought about it, I have to concede that you’re right about the cake being a symbol. I just think it’s a shame that the law needs to ‘insist’ on tolerance when life would be so much better if we could achieve it without intervention :O) x

        Liked by 1 person

      • October 11, 2018 at 2:37 pm

        Yeah, I’ve run a couple of businesses, too, so I understand that. However, I’ve seen the dangers of unmitigated corporate power and influence, too. And we saw what deregulation did during the collapse. Plus, I favor a universal health care system and strong social safety nets and we can’t get that without taxation. It’s a balance. Right now, the balance has swung too far towards deregulation and low taxation for the ultra-rich, and we need to rebalance that ledger. 😁

        Liked by 1 person

      • October 11, 2018 at 3:02 pm

        No system is ideal unfortunately; I think that politicians just keep trying different theories in the hope that one will work :O) x

        Liked by 1 person

      • October 11, 2018 at 3:15 pm

        Keep trying, eh? 😂

        Liked by 1 person

      • October 11, 2018 at 3:20 pm

        Can’t do much else ;O) x

        Liked by 1 person

  9. October 13, 2018 at 11:21 am

    I think it’s all about freedom.
    To bake or not to bake.
    To go somewhere else
    to buy a cake.
    But with one man’s freedom
    there will always be another
    who gets offended.
    In Australia our meddling
    government introduced a law
    making it an offence to offend
    someone else.
    That was the start of a grand
    lawyers picnic.
    Now they can all afford cake.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. October 13, 2018 at 2:54 pm

    Yeah…I think people like that do fear some sort of retribution in the afterlife for supporting people of the LGBTQ community. The ironic thing is shouldn’t people feel that they’ll get retribution in the afterlife for NOT be kind to the LGBTQ community??? I remember growing up people would say, don’t say things like “Oh my God!” Or “Jesus Christ” because that’s saying God’s name in vain. But for me—-personally—-I think saying God’s name is vain is when people use his name to justify their biases and prejudice towards other people different from themselves. I mean think about it…people have been using God’s name for 1000s of years in vain to incite wars, slavery…to separate families in America recently. I don’t agree the lifestyle of LGBTQ community, but I must foremost believe that we should treat people with respect and dignity! And I’m sure God would agree with that too, because HE is a GREAT God! He loves ALL His children! He knew what we were going to be when He formed us in the womb, so I have NO doubt that God loves them TOO! I think at the end of our lives or this world God will judge us more for not only on how we lived our lives, but how we treated one another.
    P.S. Sorry if it was a bit preachy. I tend to be on my soapbox too long😅😅😅

    Liked by 1 person

    • October 13, 2018 at 4:47 pm

      Yes I’m with you – I’m sure He’d want everyone to just be happy and be nice to each other :O)
      Not at all – you can say what you like here xx

      Liked by 1 person

  11. October 14, 2018 at 8:10 am

    This is a hard one as both are entitled to their own views and belief .
    May be too much of a media circus has been created and at the end nobody can make their views prevail at the damage of the others.
    Freedom is the base of our world so ………….why all this chaos 🤷🏻‍♀️

    Liked by 1 person

  12. October 16, 2018 at 7:47 am

    It’s a tragic story but I’m glad the case has gone to the Supreme Court because it is fundamentally about freedom of expression. The right for a person to say “Support Gay Marriage” and the right of a person NOT to say “Support Gay Marriage” if they disagree. The cake might have caused a similar fuss if the icing concerned the monarchy, Holocaust-denial or cartoons about Islam.
    However, All-About-Life, your quotes from the bible seem random and out of context. They come from Ecclesiastes and Isaiah in the Old Testament and one is from Romans in the new Testament. Imho, you haven’t understood the complete message of the Gospel which is summarised in John Chapter 3 v16. If that verse is not self explanatory then try Acts 2 v12, Romans 10 v 9,10 and John 8 v12. If you are still interested in finding out what Christianity is about then try looking for an ‘Alpha’ course. There will be one near you and they will probably give you free cake!

    Liked by 1 person

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